Head On VS. Snakes on a Plane!

Head on apply directly to forehead!
Head on apply directly to forehead!
SNAKES ON A MOTHERFUCKING PLANE MOTHERFUCKER!
Head on snakes directly to forehead!
Motherfucking snakes head on directly on a plane apply to forehead motherfucker!

OK in all seriousness, which is more annoying, that commercial or people talking about that movie, even 10 years from now.

They both suck... So does Tornado's avatar.

israel is more annoying

I think you mean Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, etc...

Saudi Arabia has always been annoying, no one cares about Syria. Iraq is only annoying because we made it that way. Iran and Lebanon? I'm sure in the coming weekend, especially with Iran's new "nose turned up to the rest of the world" policy, we'll see just how annoying these two countries are.

But still, Israel is annoying.

And why is that?

Because it shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the way it was brought about. And I don't agree with this "well, since we made the country we should support it" attitude.

:]

ALSO, in all seriousness; I've never seen the commercial that is referenced in Tornado's avatar and here.

Said By Pancakes

Because it shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the way it was brought about. And I don't agree with this "well, since we made the country we should support it" attitude.

And neither should the other countries surrounding it. Israel exists because the original Israelites had that piece of land way before anyone else. The only thing that the US does for Israel is give them weapons. Israel buys them. What they do with them is their business and we really shouldn't care what Israel does.

I don't know why it bothers you that Israel exists considering that without Israel, the middle east would probably destroyed half the world already.

Israel is very much like the US, except they know how to fight or when to I should say. And remember Mr. Geopolitical, it wasn't the US that made it. It was the UN in 1947. Even if the UN did not "make" (as you put it) Israel, the Israelites (which have historically been militaristic) would have and did carve out the country for themselves.

History books help.

Said By Aron Schatz

Said By Pancakes

Because it shouldn't exist. I don't agree with the way it was brought about. And I don't agree with this "well, since we made the country we should support it" attitude.

And neither should the other countries surrounding it. Israel exists because the original Israelites had that piece of land way before anyone else. The only thing that the US does for Israel is give them weapons. Israel buys them. What they do with them is their business and we really shouldn't care what Israel does.

I don't know why it bothers you that Israel exists considering that without Israel, the middle east would probably destroyed half the world already.

Israel is very much like the US, except they know how to fight or when to I should say. And remember Mr. Geopolitical, it wasn't the US that made it. It was the UN in 1947. Even if the UN did not "make" (as you put it) Israel, the Israelites (which have historically been militaristic) would have and did carve out the country for themselves.

History books help.

I suggest moving these posts to another thread but here we go;

So Israel exists because the Israelis controlled the land before anyone else did? It's interesting that Israel exists and a native american state doesn't, isn't it? You and I both know that Israel was not created to restore the Jewish community to their original geographic territory. Zionism may seem humane but you're completely forgetting about an entire group of people that lived there at least 700 years prior to this state being created. And it may have been the UN's official doing but who do you think pressed and supported it through out it's debate?

Now, what is my problem with this state? Well my problem with it is right here:

Said By Aron Schatz

The only thing that the US does for Israel is give them weapons. Israel buys them. What they do with them is their business and we really shouldn't care what Israel does.

Okay, so the Holocaust happens and there is tons of Jewish sympathy? Understandable. So we want to give the Jews a state to call their own? Pushing it, but understandable. So we come in to Palestine and move out the arabs because they do not have deeds or titles to their houses to prove ownership to the gaza strip so that the Jews may have a place to call their own? With the justification that "they had it first"? And then a conflict begins between the Israelis and Palestinians but now we "shouldn't really care what Israel does" because everything is right? Seems a litte warped to me.

Now, let me go into further detail to what I don't like about this;
I don't like that the UN (but consisting mostly of the allies) can come into a territory where people have come to reside and kick them out of their home thus creating a conflict that has grown to be one of the more violent and constant conflicts today and then simply say well "Israel's their own state now so they can do what they want". It doesn't seem wrong to you in the least bit to come in and create a conflict that isn't even about the land anymore?

As for the middle-east destroying most of the world, I doubt it. The Middle-East is only powerful at all because of oil and then, that's not even all of the middle-east. What we have in that region of the world is a lot of desperation brought on by a lack of caring. And desperation leads to a lot of dark and ugly things. What do you think will happen to the middle-east when alternatives to oil are found? Of course, that's not for a long while away because most american and foreign automotive industries are making too much money to allow this to occur (electric car, anyone?). But then again, the reasons for that are an entirely different discussion.

I think politics is above you and just remember that you're the one that said...

Said By Pancakes

israel is more annoying

I have no idea why you would even bring up a topic like this for no reason. I thought you were bigger than that Pancakes... I guess I was wrong.

And like I stated in my previous post, even if there was NO UN interaction, the State of Israel would be here today because of the militarism of the people that constitute the nation.

And no, I'm not saying that they were there first and that they should get the land.

Said By Pancakes

Okay, so the Holocaust happens and there is tons of Jewish sympathy? Understandable. So we want to give the Jews a state to call their own? Pushing it, but understandable. So we come in to Palestine and move out the arabs because they do not have deeds or titles to their houses to prove ownership to the gaza strip so that the Jews may have a place to call their own? With the justification that "they had it first"? And then a conflict begins between the Israelis and Palestinians but now we "shouldn't really care what Israel does" because everything is right? Seems a litte warped to me.

You are confused still about what the outcome would have been. AND just remember if it was up to the Soviets, the arabs would have gotten the land and PUSHED THE ISRAELIS living there.

Since Israel is now a sovereign nation, they have the right to defend their people and border against incursion. You may be a supporter of those nuts that say we don't have a border problem in this country, which we most certainly do. I don't know...

And what the fuck was this thrown in for?

Said By Pancakes

Zionism may seem humane but you're completely forgetting about an entire group of people that lived there at least 700 years prior to this state being created.

What the hell are they teaching you in schools these days? How to hate everyone that the US is allies with and side with every one that hates us? Man, no wondering THIS country is fucked up.

There have been tons of coutry fuck-ups due to the UN (members of or allies of). I mean, for fuck's sake, look at Africa. Look at South America.

Israel is only one little piece of land. I'm not saying it's right, but it's not like the only fucked-up re-organization or re-"claiming" of land to have ever happened. Granted it is causing a lot of trouble in current affairs, but to be honest, I'm not even worried about the Middle East. I'm worried about 'Nam and China.

Israel is our greatest ally (only ally, really) in the middle east.

Israel is the only democracy in the middle east. (Iraq might count down the road...)

Israel is the only hope to spread democracy in the middle east.

Tons of people lay claim to the land. Big fucking deal. It's the size of New Jersey! The US controls Hawaii because a couple of terrorists overthrew the monarchy in an action which was condemned by US Congress, yet you don't see native Hawaiians taking liquid on planes.

Pancakes, if you really don't think Israel should exist, why don't you do something about it? How about you and 11 of your friends take box cutters on some planes and fly them into large buildings? Or maybe get on board a school bus with some explosives provided by Iran or Syria?

Either way, anti-semites can go to hell, you're just hating because your foreskins are itchy and easily infected.

Said By Tweak The Reincarnated

I'm not even worried about the Middle East. I'm worried about 'Nam and China.

I'll single out China as the next big threat. I agree with you Tweak.

We owe shitloads upon shitloads of money to China. I doubt they'll attack us as long as that trend continues. North Korea, however....

Said By aphremen

We owe shitloads upon shitloads of money to China. I doubt they'll attack us as long as that trend continues. North Korea, however....

Korea is the other one I'm worried about.

Again, I urge you to move these posts to another topic, but let's go ahead and get a few things straight:

1.) If we're going to have a discussion about this, let's try to keep the insults out of it. I don't believe I've attacked you for your beliefs, if you choose to attack me for mine then I guess we'll see who the "bigger person" is?

2.) I'm not a supporter of Israel because of the needless conflict it created that we seem to ignore. You think it's okay for them to defend their borders? I say it's okay for others to as well, especially when their borders are taken out from under them. I especially don't support ignoring a problem that is there simply because we might lose an ally in the middle east. After all, if taken from Bush's doctrine when we don't like a regime in the middle east, we will change it.

3.) DEMOCRACY IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERYONE OR FOR EVERY SITUATION. And even if you do believe that democracy is the only way a country can be run you have to understand that the move to democracy must be the will of a nation and it's people. It must be a gradual change that citizens move toward not one that is pressed on them otherwise the result will be political and social unrest. I'll leave you to guess what country(ies) I am talking about.

4.) I don't understand why criticism of Israel as well as the past and current handlings of the situations surrounding that country result in me being an anti-semite but then again I guess "politics is above [me]".

5.) China cannot even handle Taiwan and they're supposed to be a threat against us? Not only that, China is one of our greatest economic allies. I sincerely doubt they will be a threat to the United States out of sheer neccessity of our trade.

Now; To answer a couple of questions; Why couldn't we have distributed land to Jewish people from a coalition of willing nations who were wanting to give up part of their land in order to create a Jewish state? After all, "it is just a piece of land". That is why I think we took Zionism a bit too far and the result of this is a war that will probably go on for the rest of our life time. It used to be about land and now it is just a historic hatred. That kind of thing is troubling and I'm sorry but it is also troubling that we don't want to do anything about it.


Anyway, sorry you don't agree and that because of this you have chosen to attack me and our educational system. You'll be pleased to know that our education today is very pro-America. Especially after recent events.

Said By aphremen

Israel is our greatest ally (only ally, really) in the middle east.

Either way, anti-semites can go to hell, you're just hating because your foreskins are itchy and easily infected.

So very true.

Said By Pancakes

Again, I urge you to move these posts to another topic, but let's go ahead and get a few things straight:

I will as soon as I make a function to do this .

Said By Pancakes

1.) If we're going to have a discussion about this, let's try to keep the insults out of it. I don't believe I've attacked you for your beliefs, if you choose to attack me for mine then I guess we'll see who the "bigger person" is?

I agree, my apology about that.

Said By Pancakes

2.) I'm not a supporter of Israel because of the needless conflict it created that we seem to ignore. You think it's okay for them to defend their borders? I say it's okay for others to as well, especially when their borders are taken out from under them. I especially don't support ignoring a problem that is there simply because we might lose an ally in the middle east. After all, if taken from Bush's doctrine when we don't like a regime in the middle east, we will change it.

See, I agree that it is okay to secure your borders. The other arabic nations have their right to defend their borders as well. That being said, you don't support Israel because of the needless conflict it created? That doesn't make sense because even if Israel was never made a state by the UN it would happen anyway! I keep going back to the military heritage of the Israelites (notice I'm not using Jewish people). If Israel was allowed to, I bet the entire middle east would be under Israeli control by now or at least a significant majority of it.

Said By Pancakes

3.) DEMOCRACY IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERYONE OR FOR EVERY SITUATION. And even if you do believe that democracy is the only way a country can be run you have to understand that the move to democracy must be the will of a nation and it's people. It must be a gradual change that citizens move toward not one that is pressed on them otherwise the result will be political and social unrest. I'll leave you to guess what country(ies) I am talking about.

Agree with you there about Democracy. What I believe we are talking about is the idea that people should be morale and civil to each other. Just because you don't like a group of people does not give you the right to kill them.

Said By Pancakes

4.) I don't understand why criticism of Israel as well as the past and current handlings of the situations surrounding that country result in me being an anti-semite but then again I guess "politics is above [me]".

That wasn't my quote, but it is funny how being anti-semetic does not label you as a racist (not that you are either of them). This is the Mel Gibson clause of racism.

Said By Pancakes

5.) China cannot even handle Taiwan and they're supposed to be a threat against us? Not only that, China is one of our greatest economic allies. I sincerely doubt they will be a threat to the United States out of sheer neccessity of our trade.

And do you think it is good that we owe China so much money that they can turn around and tell us to pay out debt? We would be screwed, worse than that! How about the fact that the Chinese space program does not want anything to do with the rest of the world because they will be militarizing space. Also remember that China has more people in their army than we have in the entire country. China surely doesn't 'need' us at all. I won't bring up the gross humanitarian crimes in that country, either.

Said By Pancakes

Now; To answer a couple of questions; Why couldn't we have distributed land to Jewish people from a coalition of willing nations who were wanting to give up part of their land in order to create a Jewish state?

Where exactly? You would have to move everyone currently living in that region... and it still wouldn't solve the problem that the region was ready to be taken over anyway.

Said By Pancakes

After all, "it is just a piece of land". That is why I think we took Zionism a bit too far and the result of this is a war that will probably go on for the rest of our life time. It used to be about land and now it is just a historic hatred.

It is more than just a piece of land to every major religion out there. That alone makes people want to fight for it. I don't really care about the religious aspect of it.

Said By Pancakes

That kind of thing is troubling and I'm sorry but it is also troubling that we don't want to do anything about it. Anyway, sorry you don't agree and that because of this you have chosen to attack me and our educational system. You'll be pleased to know that our education today is very pro-America. Especially after recent events.

My attack on you was a mistake... I chose to attack the educational system for a reason, I just went through it. It is disgusting to me what some professors say of the hip. If it isn't like that at your school, I'm glad.

Sorry, most boards I post at have this post splitting//combining function.

The thing is Aron that if the Israelis had conquered the region through military there would have at least been a chance to defend one's property. The way it was handled there was no chance for anyone living in the region to defend their home because most of it was political with little to no say of the current inhabitants of that piece of land. My point about the coalition of willing countries got the reaction I hoped it did. If there was no room for willing countries to make for Israel, why did unwilling people have to make room? Or rather, why did unwilling people have to make room and not even be given a chance to fight for their own space?

And yes, the land means a lot to a lot of religions but this isn't and never was a religious war. It was about the actual land. If some one moved me out of my home I'd be equally as unhappy.

And as far as China: Okay, they have a lot of people. Why haven't they invaded Taiwan? Taiwan has been a thorn in their side for quite a few years now and you would think that if China was so powerful they could suppress whatever uprising or delusions of grandeur (because to my knowledge Taiwan has not been recognized as a sovereign nation yet) Taiwan has. Instead they use their seat on the Security Council as well as their economic pull to play "good dog, bad dog" games with nations who recognize and don't recognize Taiwan as a sovereign nation. As for the money we owe them, you're right, it is quite a bit. But I would venture to say a good deal of China's trade comes from us and if China were to suddenly ask for all the money back, sure we would lose about 10% of what comes in to our economy. That would be devestating. But I would think China's loss would be worse which is why I don't think that's ever a possibility. At least not for the next few years. There are always other "china's" in the world we could import cheap goods from, international business and outsourcing has taught us that. Militirizing space seems scary. Snakes in space seem scarier. And all in all I think we have the highest military budget out of any nation in the last 20 years (not that it's something I agree with at all) so I'm not as worried about China's Space Program. The humanitarian crimes there are terrible but it doesn't make them a "threat" to us and it surely doesn't make them the only place they occur.

On a side note: Honestly I think the next super power (not threat, just power) will be Brazil but I believe they just made a pact with China so that could hinder things a little bit. As well as their courruption. However, if they ever get the latter worked out I think that they will be in a strong running for the next super power.

Said By Pancakes

3.) DEMOCRACY IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERYONE OR FOR EVERY SITUATION. And even if you do believe that democracy is the only way a country can be run you have to understand that the move to democracy must be the will of a nation and it's people. It must be a gradual change that citizens move toward not one that is pressed on them otherwise the result will be political and social unrest. I'll leave you to guess what country(ies) I am talking about.

Agreed.

Quote

5.) China cannot even handle Taiwan and they're supposed to be a threat against us? Not only that, China is one of our greatest economic allies. I sincerely doubt they will be a threat to the United States out of sheer neccessity of our trade.

I still think they will, at least, become a threat and probably fairly soon. They have a massive army and even if we nuke them, the sheer size of people left would be enough to launch an all out armada of Chinese on the US. Maybe that's a big unrealistic or paranoid, but whatever. It's just what I think.
Also, I could swear that Russian and China have some sort of oil deal going on, which is another reason why they could be threatening to us. At least to our "power".

Said By Pancakes

And yes, the land means a lot to a lot of religions but this isn't and never was a religious war. It was about the actual land. If some one moved me out of my home I'd be equally as unhappy.

What? At LEAST 75% of the war is BECUASE of religion. Jews want it cuz of the second temple, and i forget why the muslims want it at the moment (just got off work) but they do as well. Hence why there is a war. Mix in ass holes who think they can take over the world by threating everybody. Whats more is they think that everyone will fall to their will and it just makes everything worse.

And where did you get brazil from, just out of curosity pancakes? although ill tell you this much, korea/samsung is going to be the next japan/sony

Said By xiamurgodx

Said By Pancakes

And yes, the land means a lot to a lot of religions but this isn't and never was a religious war. It was about the actual land. If some one moved me out of my home I'd be equally as unhappy.

What? At LEAST 75% of the war is BECUASE of religion. Jews want it cuz of the second temple, and i forget why the muslims want it at the moment (just got off work) but they do as well. Hence why there is a war. Mix in ass holes who think they can take over the world by threating everybody. Whats more is they think that everyone will fall to their will and it just makes everything worse.

And where did you get brazil from, just out of curosity pancakes? although ill tell you this much, korea/samsung is going to be the next japan/sony

Religion has very little to do with this conflict, if none at all. This concerns all members of Israel and Palestine and not all members of Israel and Palestine are jewish and muslim respectively. This isn't about "the jews and the muslims". This is about "Israeli's and Palestinians". Israel is where Palestine used to be. Israeli's live where Palestinians used to live. The Palestinians want to live there again. It is as simple as that. Some Palestinians still where the keys to their old houses around their neck as a symbol of their hope to one day return to the land they was stripped from them.

As for Brazil, Brazil's economic status as well as their huge population has lead me to believe that their country is next in line to be a super power. They've had a bit of a downfall recently but for a while there they were on the right track. If they could ever get their administration worked out I think they'd be serious contenders in today's economic and even political arenas.

As for Korea being the next Japan//Sony unless there is a serious cut in military budget I cannot see anyone advancing as rapidly and as efficiently as Japan has.

EDITED FOR SPELLING.

Said By xiamurgodx

Said By Pancakes

And yes, the land means a lot to a lot of religions but this isn't and never was a religious war. It was about the actual land. If some one moved me out of my home I'd be equally as unhappy.

What? At LEAST 75% of the war is BECUASE of religion. Jews want it cuz of the second temple, and i forget why the muslims want it at the moment (just got off work) but they do as well. Hence why there is a war. Mix in ass holes who think they can take over the world by threating everybody. Whats more is they think that everyone will fall to their will and it just makes everything worse.

And where did you get brazil from, just out of curosity pancakes? although ill tell you this much, korea/samsung is going to be the next japan/sony

In the near future, after aliens steal all of the worlds bikinis, very skimpy string bikinis will become an extremely valuable commidity, also, portuguese will become the official language of Earth. These two events will put Brazil back on top like they were in BC 10,000.

So whoever has land first gets to keep it forever huh? In that case I guess we better move to mars because all of our land belongs to some frozen Homo Erectus dude. At the very least I should start firing rockets in your living room, pancakes, to claim your land for the Native Americans!

I mean, lets take mexico for example. If the spanish never came down there the Aztecs would have continued to expand, and continued to kill all who oppose them (including women and children, and pregnant women), and killing prisoners by ripping out their hearts. Given their prowess in battle they could have easily moved up north, and before you know it controlled the entire North American continent. Then George Washington would have died by being shown his own beating heart, and America would not exist today.

As bad as the Spanish were, many enslaved people welcomed them as liberators. Sure there was insurgents and the whole thing cost Spain a lot of money and alienated former allies, but in the end people were better off.

At any rate. We owe china shitloads of money. Beyond shitloads, fuckloads! Trillians of fucking dollars. When you hear that we're flat broke and borrowing more money, it's usually China nowadays. China won't attack us directly, they've got too much of a good deal going by collecting interest.

Boo-fucking-hoo the borders weren't exactly what everyone wanted. I'm sure some of the Arabian tribes got fucked too, and it's become apparent that Iraq was a bit of a mistake, but ya know what? Would they prefer to live under rule of the Nazi Party? You seem to forget that was the alternative.

Either way, these morons aren't killing themselves because of the land, the land won in the 6 day war and others was given back already look it up somewhere other than hippieliberalterroristloverpedia.org, ok? It's been about religion for a long fucking time. Like pancakes, these people deny the fact the holocaust ever happened, they say that the jews have no right to establish their own nation so they can protect themselves from people who want to wipe them off the face of the earth, and people like Iran's pres think that killing every Israeli will hasten the coming of the Prophet. Jee wiz, there's no way that kind of thinking is religion based.

I can see why you're so hyped about brazil though, ethanol is soooooo much better than hydrogen as an alternative to petrolium. It's also not like there's any corn or sugar being grown anywhere else in the world.

As far as im concerned, since i just got back from isreal last month, what i said is what the people living are saying, plus the feeling i got when i was there. ya on the books it may be like that, but in real life its another story

as far a samsung, their technolgy has surrpased sony and now panasonic as far as quailty and just plain technology. examples lcd's (my friend sells), cellphones (which i sell so i know for sure) is just a couple.

Said By aphremen

Said By xiamurgodx

Said By Pancakes

And yes, the land means a lot to a lot of religions but this isn't and never was a religious war. It was about the actual land. If some one moved me out of my home I'd be equally as unhappy.

What? At LEAST 75% of the war is BECUASE of religion. Jews want it cuz of the second temple, and i forget why the muslims want it at the moment (just got off work) but they do as well. Hence why there is a war. Mix in ass holes who think they can take over the world by threating everybody. Whats more is they think that everyone will fall to their will and it just makes everything worse.

And where did you get brazil from, just out of curosity pancakes? although ill tell you this much, korea/samsung is going to be the next japan/sony

In the near future, after aliens steal all of the worlds bikinis, very skimpy string bikinis will become an extremely valuable commidity, also, portuguese will become the official language of Earth. These two events will put Brazil back on top like they were in BC 10,000.

So whoever has land first gets to keep it forever huh? In that case I guess we better move to mars because all of our land belongs to some frozen Homo Erectus dude. At the very least I should start firing rockets in your living room, pancakes, to claim your land for the Native Americans!

I mean, lets take mexico for example. If the spanish never came down there the Aztecs would have continued to expand, and continued to kill all who oppose them (including women and children, and pregnant women), and killing prisoners by ripping out their hearts. Given their prowess in battle they could have easily moved up north, and before you know it controlled the entire North American continent. Then George Washington would have died by being shown his own beating heart, and America would not exist today.

As bad as the Spanish were, many enslaved people welcomed them as liberators. Sure there was insurgents and the whole thing cost Spain a lot of money and alienated former allies, but in the end people were better off.

At any rate. We owe china shitloads of money. Beyond shitloads, fuckloads! Trillians of fucking dollars. When you hear that we're flat broke and borrowing more money, it's usually China nowadays. China won't attack us directly, they've got too much of a good deal going by collecting interest.

Boo-fucking-hoo the borders weren't exactly what everyone wanted. I'm sure some of the Arabian tribes got fucked too, and it's become apparent that Iraq was a bit of a mistake, but ya know what? Would they prefer to live under rule of the Nazi Party? You seem to forget that was the alternative.

Either way, these morons aren't killing themselves because of the land, the land won in the 6 day war and others was given back already look it up somewhere other than hippieliberalterroristloverpedia.org, ok? It's been about religion for a long fucking time. Like pancakes, these people deny the fact the holocaust ever happened, they say that the jews have no right to establish their own nation so they can protect themselves from people who want to wipe them off the face of the earth, and people like Iran's pres think that killing every Israeli will hasten the coming of the Prophet. Jee wiz, there's no way that kind of thinking is religion based.

I can see why you're so hyped about brazil though, ethanol is soooooo much better than hydrogen as an alternative to petrolium. It's also not like there's any corn or sugar being grown anywhere else in the world.

aphreman: I would love to discuss this with you but I can't see continuing this if it's just going to be a one-sided zinger game. So far I think I've been pretty civil. Why can't you do the same?

EDIT

btw:

Said By aphreman

Like pancakes, these people deny the fact the holocaust ever happened

Said By Pancakes

Okay, so the Holocaust happens

?

Whatever though, right? It's probably just some liberal leftist trick I was playing to get people to believe the holocaust never happened?

I'm so sorry mr. Very sensitive for someone taking a pro-genocide stance. I meant "not a holocaust denier in the strictest sense, but in the way many white supremecists are these days, not denying the camps but questioning the numbers and claiming "only" a few hundred thousand died at most since they insist there was no prussian blue and this proves nobody was gassed.".

I'm not following your logic at all aphreman, so please if you would, explain it to me.

Here's what I'm gathering:

The Holocaust happens-->Jewish sympathy arises-->We etch out a state for Jews to live in as a result of this but in doing so kick out the current inhabitants-->conflict arises-->war starts-->terrorism starts-->instead of looking for a solution we "support" Israel by selling weapons and then turning our backs to the conflict for fear of losing our only Middle-Eastern ally-->I am not a supporter of war-->I am not a supporter of the tactics used by the Palestinians-->I believe violence is unneccessary and unfortunate and hoped that our country or at least other countries would have handled this situation differently. And this yields... I believe that the holocaust never happened?

Said By Pancakes

I'm not following your logic at all aphreman, so please if you would, explain it to me.

Here's what I'm gathering:

The Holocaust happens-->Jewish sympathy arises-->We etch out a state for Jews to live in as a result of this but in doing so kick out the current inhabitants-->conflict arises-->war starts-->terrorism starts-->instead of looking for a solution we "support" Israel by selling weapons and then turning our backs to the conflict for fear of losing our only Middle-Eastern ally-->I am not a supporter of war-->I am not a supporter of the tactics used by the Palestinians-->I believe violence is unneccessary and unfortunate and hoped that our country or at least other countries would have handled this situation differently. And this yields... I believe that the holocaust never happened?

First off, it was a diss. When a fox sits amongst dogs it is often easily confused with a dog.

You seem confused about the formation of Israel. There was an official Israeli state at one time, they lived in Palestine. The Palestinians weren't very nice but ya know, what're gonna do about it? After the war was over, they redrew borders based on whim, and also attempting to give tribes/people official countries where they had not had one for a while. Israel was an example of this.

You are apparently under the impression that we rounded up people from Delis & tax accounting firms then shipped them off. Did it have anything to do with the Holocaust? Yeah, little bit. The whole Muslim denial of the holocaust thing is trying to say that jews are decieptful and using pity to get the western world on their side. Maybe we should start denying the crusades?

What would you do in the region? If all the Israelis are wiped out in the manner that you dream of, sunnis and suffis will still kill each other. The kurds will still be slaughtered in spite of the fact that they don't even ask to get a country, they just want to live in peace, and if that fails everyone there still wants to kill americans like you wouldn't believe.

Fact of the matter is, we need to support our allies there because the only way there's going to be stability in the region is if the concept of mutually assured destruction gets translated into sanscrit.

Said By Pancakes

On a side note: Honestly I think the next super power (not threat, just power) will be Brazil but I believe they just made a pact with China so that could hinder things a little bit. As well as their courruption. However, if they ever get the latter worked out I think that they will be in a strong running for the next super power.

And they will rule the world with their soccer skillz

It was a diss with no basis what so ever. It actually seems very closely tied to Bill O'Reily's form of "dissing". But okay, anyway, let's see here:

As for the confusion of Israel and Palestine, you're right, here's what I'm confused about: I realize there was an Israeli state at one time just as there were many native american states at one time. You don't see us redrawing borders for them. So what makes Israel any different? And yes, it did have a lot to do with the holocaust. I'm aware that Jewish refugees and the like had no where to go after the war. Why not different states take them in? Or different willing states opt to give some land and redraw their own borders. I still don't understand why if there was no room for willing people to move why unwilling people had to? And yes sir, some arabian tribes got fucked over. And just like you said Americans thought of it as "boo hoo, get over it". I am sure that did not help our already sinking reputation in that region of the world. And I'm sure it still doesn't. There's so much desperation in that part of the world as well as others and that desperation leads to fanatical and radical forms of ugliness. But, to take a page from your fox and dog analogy, you seem to be under the impression that all arabians, muslims, and more specifically to what we are talking about, Palestinians born with bombs inside their stomachs and even if Israel were not around there would be nothing we could about this.

Also, you seem to be confusing Israel and the way Israel was brought about with the Israelis. Now, if you could please quote in any of my posts where I stated that Israelis are the reason there is still a conflict between the Palestinians and the Israelis. I'm sure you'll find that my arguments focused on Israel as a country and the way it came to be furthermore, the way the situation was handled after it came to be. Sorry, aphreman, not everyone who doesn't agree with you is a terrorist. And not everyone who doesn't agree with you is suddenly a genocidal racist.

Now, if the Israelis had conquered the state through a war, it would be different. But they didn't. Most of this was settled in a political arena by countries who did and do not have anything to do with the situation there today.

As for the sunni's and the shi'ites (because I assume you were talking about the shi'ites) you are right, they would still be killing each other. But that's another discussion entirely and has nothing to do with the Israel-Palestine conflict. And the Kurds? You know as I recall the Kurds had it pretty good in northern Iraq until we came in. You know, the whole, Saddam only being allowed in the central part of his country thing? They were fine with that.

The fact of the matter, aphreman, is that my annoyance with Israel is due to the current conflict it created which is stated many times through out this thread. Now if you want to talk about peace in the middle east as a whole, I will be glad to do so but you should let me know because you kind of switch it up when you're supposed to be talking about the Israel-Palestine conflict.